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I wanted to ask Mr. Edwards, what's it that we all enjoyed very much listening to on TV

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when I was younger?

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Why do they always have to add that?

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I know that I got a letter the other day from a guy who wanted to bring his grandson to meet me,

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and they developed that the grandpa used to listen to me in Pittsburgh when he was a boy.

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Greatest, the greatest saddest man, you've hurt this man deeply, but go ahead with your question.

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Sorry about that.

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I'm grieving now.

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What I wanted to ask is, do you believe that the Air Force will take off their restrictions,

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and why do they keep holding them now?

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I mean, people are getting more enlightened, they're not getting hysterical,

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they work back when Orson Wells was doing all these things,

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so I'd like to take the restrictions off.

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Well, let me put this in his proper perspective here.

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The Air Force did not impose the restrictions, they were imposed on the Air Force from some higher source.

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My guess would be the National Security Council.

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So the Air Force cannot remove the restrictions which were imposed upon it,

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but I think they would gladly, you know, probability, they would gladly tell the public the truth.

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They were permitted to, but they can only go so far.

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And that's what I do in my book, is to tell the public what the Air Force is not permitted to tell them.

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And I don't think the Air Force can make any change until the change is made for it,

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although I feel that they probably would like to make it.

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I see. And on one more question like that, is your book going to come out and pay for that?

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Eventually, yes. I really don't know when, but Van Vooks bought the paperback rights to it,

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and I really don't know when it will come out in paperbacks.

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Because I've got a paperback budget, so I'll wait and see what it's like.

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It follows as the paperbacks.

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It follows as the night shall follow the day that all books will come out in paperbacks.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for calling.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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Yes, sir.

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Mr. Targush?

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Yes, sir.

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I can hardly hear you.

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Well, I hear you beautifully.

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All right. Thank you.

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I would like to know for me as a gentleman there, please,

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what's your opinion would be of the author of the Anatomy of a Phenomenon by Jacques Barou?

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Yes, he treats it from the standpoint of an astronomer.

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There are some aspects of it with which he is obviously unfamiliar.

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But the research that he did was good, and his treatment of the subject is logical and very intelligent,

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as it should be from the man of his caliber.

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In your experiences and your studies and your research on it,

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what is the idea of the Phenomenon incident?

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I have no opinions on that at all.

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The first place, I'm not familiar with it.

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I regarded it as a, and for what I think it is, some sort of a religious, curious religious story.

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And I have never formed any opinions or conclusions on it.

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I saw a book somewhere, and I don't know whose book it was not, may have been Valais,

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which treated the Fatima incident as though it might be involved with UFOs.

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But on the basis of what I know of it, I doubt that,

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and I certainly don't know enough about it to arrive at the same conclusion.

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Let's put it that way.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you, Bruce Moley.

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Thank you.

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I'm a long distance call, and let's move to our telephone and see what this party wants to know

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or wants to tell us.

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Hello?

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Hello.

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Yes, Ben?

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I was wondering, since Mr. English and Ms. Genette are associated with my parents,

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I have a publication from the United States in which there is a statement that on December 4th,

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and from Anne Huguet,

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Gemini 7 Astronauts Report, Bogey at 10 o'clock.

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Now, did they actually see something?

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Who were the astronauts?

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I don't know.

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It's not mentioned.

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I think this was Boorman.

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I believe this was the Boorman case.

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He was one of the astronauts.

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In that case, they tried to assure him from the base station that he was looking at a booster rocket.

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He said, right, you are.

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I see the booster rocket in one direction, but this Bogey is in another.

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And he said, Bogey is definitely not a booster rocket, nor a satellite.

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He said, this is a football-shaped or egg-shaped thing.

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It's yellowish, orange in color and very bright.

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Now, if that description was accurate, then it would also fit the description of the object

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which was photographed by Major McGivott when he was up there with Major White.

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And they saw three of these things in one orbit, and he made an excellent picture of one

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which was circling their capsule and leaving a vapor trail behind it, which shows clearly in the picture.

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I got the picture from NASA, and I have it in my book.

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Circling their capsule?

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Yes.

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Didn't Scott Carpenter also have an hallucination?

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I don't know whether Carpenter did or not, but I know that Major Gordon Cooper was the first one.

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And then, Gordon was the next one.

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And then, White and McGivott.

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And then, more recently, Collins and Young.

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And while they were describing the two that were pacing them, they were cut off the radio.

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This, of course, saying, kept the...

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I was interested in greatly his comment on that.

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He said, well, Collins and Young were cut off, so they couldn't describe it anymore.

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And the newsman couldn't hear it, but he said, don't worry, boys.

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The Air Force would have told you it was swamp gas.

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It was always interesting how that'll tell you that no such object can be recorded as a UFO on radar.

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And you have thousands and thousands of other boys, I mean thousands and scenes of other boys.

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Well, the only statement of that type, to my knowledge, CDS special,

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was made on that thing and what they did there, they edited the rest of the statement out

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off of the tape by the authority who made it to create the...

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to change the entire meeting of what the man said.

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Now, before you said that one of these objects was recorded in, was it McGivott's study?

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Was there going the capsule?

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I was going to say that there are literally thousands of pieces of hardware up there.

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No. All of which are known to NORAD and are plotted and NORAD knows where they are and what they are.

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Even the glove all the time. Even the glove that was lost.

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They can plot.

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Okay, that puts me down. How about you, Mary?

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That was really interesting. I've been having a burning battle with someone and that might help.

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I'll try to get along with your husband.

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I'm afraid he is quite a skeptic.

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Well, let me point out to you that this is a field where the only skeptics are the uninformed.

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You may quote me to him and they'll get you up.

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I will use that.

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I actually have an article that I have picked up. I don't know whether you are familiar with it.

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It was in August 29th, the Cleveland press about Mr. Heineck, Dr. Heineck.

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Yes.

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It charges that the American science or scientists has demonstrated a form of provincialism in failing to tackle one of the great mysteries of the 20th century.

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And he warned that the attitudes of modern scientists toward UFOs, terrible, those of the evidence for meteorites reported 150 years ago when science ridiculed the notion that stones excel from the sky.

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Oh, yes, that was all the classic blue blues of science.

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Even when some noted scientists saw these things fall, they assured these noted scientists that they were nuts, that there could be no stones falling from the sky because there were no stones in the sky.

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Are you speaking of tectites?

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No, no, no. Talking of meteorites.

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Meteorites.

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In 1805, before they even admitted that the things existed, although many eminent scientists had been present when they had fallen.

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But to science, orthodox science would not accept it because it was contrary to their belief.

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There couldn't be any stones falling because there were none up there.

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There can't be any UFOs coming down because there are none out there.

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It's very simple.

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What your opinion was of this article? Has he had a change of heart?

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No, let me point out to you that Dr. Heineck is a very fine gentleman.

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And Dr. Heineck, as an employee of the Air Force, has to make some statements with which he may not be in full accord, such as the notorious swamp gas statement that he had to hand out up in Michigan last spring.

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He was, according to some statements he made in the presence of some network newsmen who passed him on to me.

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He was not at all in accord with that statement.

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But Heineck is a very intelligent man. He's a very honest man.

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And I think, in view of some things that he said, including the statement that you're quoting, that he would like to see this whole thing thrown open to real research and real discussion and real disclosure.

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He can be of help. I'll tell you that.

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It does clear up my doubt.

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You're the best man I had yet.

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Yes, that's right. And thank you very much for following.

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You're very much welcome.

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Hello.

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Hello, Mr. Douglass.

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Yes, sir.

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I would like to ask Mr. Maher for your other gentlemen.

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That's my good one.

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Mr. Edwards.

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Uh-huh.

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It's supposedly, though, I suppose I've been answered already, but I was wondering about this curious loss of film and the fogging of a film on the last two Germany shots, whether this had to do with the fighting or not.

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In other words, in a civil fight, today's shots, they said the last two films were lost or one was fogged and one was lost, inadvertently.

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Arila, are you in film?

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I'm not in film.

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I'm in a relationship with that. I know frequently the contactees will conveniently lose a film. I heard that once.

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You better explain to this gentleman who the contactees are.

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The contactees are the people who claim they've been communicating with creatures from outer space, et cetera. But as far as this is concerned, I really don't know. I couldn't answer you. I'm sorry.

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Well, no. I mean, on the, I know they had to walk in space with Commander White.

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But, like on today's TV program, they were saying that two films were lost or one was lost and one shot and one was badly fogged at the age they couldn't show it.

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Well, I'll tell you, so many things could cause that. And particularly, the normal radiation out there in space would have a tendency to fog film unless the camera was, had some kind of protection around it, probably a lead sheet.

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So I don't think that either Earl or I would be in a position to comment on that because it could be due to so many things other than UFO activity.

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Well, what I was driving at, maybe they were busy photographing other things.

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Yeah, that could be. They don't want to show the pictures anybody, so they said we didn't get it.

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Well, we were charging at the loss of communication. And I was noticing today they said on a couple of counts where they didn't have too much talk between the ground, or at least it wasn't broadcast between the ground and the space caps.

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Well, I think that would be sort of a supposition.

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I'm sure more facts were, were gathered.

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Years ago I had the pleasure of meeting Joe Walker and I showed him some things that had been printed in Europe and then had been translated for him and sent them out to his home.

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Joe's the man who did that X-15 flight faster than a human in a plane, you know, and then unfortunately just very recently was killed. He was a great guy.

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And I had an interesting letter I received from him later. But while he was up near Seattle, Washington one time, he lectured and was highly criticized for it by NASA because he had spoken of the film that was taken through the gun camera, the pictures that were taken through the gun camera.

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And this country shushed it pretty quickly, but in Europe they played it up pretty fast because apparently there's some reporters there that picked it up and then put in the European papers.

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Will it be clear that he was followed by some objects?

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Well, he actually himself didn't see them, but usually it was a rear view, a rear view movie camera.

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And it photographed these objects coming up in back of the tail of his X-15 rocket plane. And there were, I believe, five of them. I've got the story there in the book.

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And they flew an echelon formation behind his plane. And the official explanation was that these were ice flakes.

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Well, now educated ice flakes are something new in the field of aerial phenomena, especially educated ice flakes that can fly in formation behind a plane that's going 25 or 30, or 500 miles an hour.

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And were they supposedly approaching the plane?

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They kept their distance and they maneuvered with it. In other words, they followed the same maneuvers.

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The oxygen and ice flakes don't maneuver like these did.

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Mr. Gurgler, there is one other thing that's curious to me because,

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Who was it for?

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You were saying how on this one, a count back in the early 20s, or rather going back, which is, it's not in the 1800s,

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where this rather cumbersome object was cited.

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And then going all the way back to the 20s, and these people said that they saw this object and they disappeared between that period of time, between the 40s.

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Right.

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In other words, they were just attempting to contact or reply to space or whatever they were doing.

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But I can't understand the speed of development between back in the 20s and the 20 years.

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You mean in the 20 year period?

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What?

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You mean you think we're crediting them with too much technological improvement in the 20 year period?

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Well, I can't, when I balance this, that's an account against accounts way back in the biblical times.

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Yeah.

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That was cited.

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This is what's confusing me.

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In other words, some of those accounts, as though they were more advanced then, than they were during this period, during the 20s.

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Well, no, I don't think so.

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And you must remember that technological development can sometimes come very fast.

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Don't forget now that eight years ago, we could not get a four pound satellite off the launching pad.

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Eight years ago.

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And look what we're doing now.

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We put one of those 8,200 pounds.

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Yeah.

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And eight years ago, we couldn't get that more pounder off the pad down there.

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Look what we've done in eight years.

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Look what we'll be doing if we continue at this rate.

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Look what we'll be doing in eight more years.

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And I don't think it's inconceivable at all that someone else could have made the same or even more impressive gains in ten or ten years.

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In ten or fifteen or twenty years.

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Can I ask one question?

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Yes, sir.

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Now, as a gentleman, like a conductor, whether it's these crafts are possibly our inner solar or inner stellar.

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Dr. Herman O'Bart, the great German rocket scientist, said at the end of his investigation of these things for the West German government,

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and he made the statement in October of 54 at Innsbruck.

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He said that he and his scientific colleagues who had worked on that commission had come to the unanimous opinion that these things did not originate in our solar system,

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but that they had been coming here for a very long time.

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And I think that that's about as good a guess as anybody has made yet in all the military men and scientists within whom I'm associated are of O'Bart's opinion.

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And they share the same view.

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They don't know where these things come from, but they've obviously been coming here sporadically at least for a long time.

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Okay.

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Alright, so thank you.

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Hello, Mr. German.

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Yes, sir.

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Concerning the phenomenon of the USOs, UFOs, it's a...

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Did you turn your video down, sir?

225
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Yes.

226
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Could you please, thank you.

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I have an attention that's due to my observations that possibly from the numerous sightings I've seen over or heard of over the Great Lakes region and the Great Plains area,

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these sightings, the UFOs have a tendency to be seen in an area where there's a lot of sand and a lot of pure or fresh water.

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Now, is there any information coming?

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Hello. You're referring to the seeming preponderance of the sightings in the past in the Southwest?

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That's right. Here and also around the Great Lakes region here.

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Well, I'll tell you, I think that the real reason these things are seen more frequently in, say, the Midwest and the Great Plains states in the Southwest,

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they're seen more frequently in those areas because of viewing conditions. The seeing conditions are better.

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They're around big cities, say, New York City. One thing you've got a lot of haze, another thing you've got a lot of light in the viewing conditions are poor.

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And I don't know that there's any reason to believe that these things have any affinity for either fresh water or sand,

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but they do have a tendency to be seen better where the viewing conditions for us are better.

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Also, wasn't there, well, some years ago, in the late 40s and in the 50s, when there was some atomic testing going on in the Southwest,

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wouldn't this have been a valid reason for their being a preponderance of the South?

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Well, they did visit the White Sands Sordo area and they also did visit Hanford soon after we got started there.

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And they, as it may be pure coincidence, but they appeared in numbers one year after man fired his first atomic device.

241
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Now, whether they came as a result of the tremendous disturbance and the radiation sent out by those devices, no one can say at this point.

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Well, that is Josh, you're there.

243
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Yes.

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Let me stop you right there because that's an interesting point.

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What is one light year away from the area?

246
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Six trillion miles of light year.

247
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Six trillion miles.

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I just thought I'd mention it.

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You might be somebody sitting out there six trillion miles waiting.

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Oh, what I was also wondering, you know, there's so much of research being done now,

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that technical advancements that have been made with silicon is a type of making transistor circuits and so forth.

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I just wanted to possibly agree that these UFOs were using the sands as a source of energy or something of this nature.

253
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And I guess there's really no evidence of this today.

254
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Well, Dr. Ulpert and other scientists who expressed themselves on the possible means of propulsion used by these crafts have all been unanimous in stating that in their opinion they propel themselves by distorting the gravitational field.

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This would be in conflamity with Einstein's unified field theory.

256
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And this is also probably the reason we are spending hundreds of millions of dollars trying to find out what gravity is and how to use it.

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And if we ever find this out, our space travel problems will be largely solved.

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And these multi-million dollar firecrackers that we use to get off of Cape Kennedy will be relegated to the field of the ox cart.

259
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Now, you talk about this, anti-gravity research. How close do you think we are to that?

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Ulpert said that by 1970 men would be going to the moon in electrically propelled devices.

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They asked him if he meant ion propulsion. He said, no, I do not. I mean electrically propelled.

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So I presume that Ulpert, who made that statement just after he left five years in Huntsville, Alabama at the Redstone Arsenal,

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would have imagined that he made that on the basis of information that he gained there.

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You know, man has now certainly countered the problem with G-forces.

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And in the whole larger picture of space travel, which has to include gravitational freedoms, ultimately,

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according to everything I've heard, it must be that we are simply doing the groundwork now,

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the experimental work that is required to find out what the human reaction is to travel.

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Once this gravity problem is overcome, it would seem to me that a lot of questions that we have about the rapid acceleration potential

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of so-called unidentified flying objects, the weird patterns that it chooses to fly, the sudden changes of direction,

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all of these things are explainable through gravity.

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Yes, through the distortion of the gravitational field. If we could do that, as these things apparently do it,

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then we'd find that many of the problems that we have now would be no longer in existence.

273
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I sometimes think that I've come very, very close to it on this program,

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as much as I've been up in the air so many times on this program, seeing me without any help.

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Do you hover? Have you noticed how it would be? You hover, no worry, I go up, and then suddenly reverse the field and come crashing back down again.

276
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Thank you for calling, sir.

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Don't you believe, gentlemen, that our president has a responsibility to the American public if there is more than just

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conversation concerning unidentified flying objects? It's my opinion that he would have a great responsibility in this area.

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So I have to conclude that it evidently isn't quite as far-reaching or serious thing, as you gentlemen seem to propose,

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with the lack of this information coming.

281
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Well, wait a minute. Right in keeping with what you're saying, the president would also have an obligation to carry out the policies

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which his predecessors had agreed on with the National Safety Council.

283
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And if he carried out those policies and maintained the secrecy, if they advocate, he would be doing his job.

284
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Well, that's exactly what's happening.

285
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Well, the State National Safety Council, I don't declare it as a national security council.

286
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Oh, my God.

287
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Yeah, and they wasn't taking a car.

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You had me zoo you up again.

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And it was President Eisenhower who said that he wanted everything that was not classified to be released to the public.

290
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And they said, yes, Mr. President, and immediately he wanted to classify.

291
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Nobody classified everything in connection with these things.

292
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Well, then are you suggesting that he's derelict in his responsibility?

293
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Not at all. I'm suggesting that he is carrying out his obligations in conformity with the policies which the president has agreed upon with the National Security Council.

294
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Yes, that old lead excercised an army.

295
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Well, it was before him, really.

296
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I think you'd have to stretch your imaginations in the elastic limit to produce anything political out of this discussion tonight.

297
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I don't think neither Mr. Admirter, Mr. Neff, have any interest in criticizing the president or any particular interest in criticizing the Air Force.

298
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I would suggest that there's nothing political involved here at all, but simply a matter of policy.

299
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And no one is very clear on where that policy was originated or just why it has been perpetuated if indeed it is a policy.

300
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Well, I think they have actually, Alan, to some degree made a joke out of some Air Force pronouncements.

301
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I don't know if you want to refer to that as criticism or not.

302
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Frankly, I don't intend to be informed on this matter at all.

303
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And it's just what I thought is a logical question that our president, if this is such a grave issue, I would feel would have a very definite responsibility to inform the American public.

304
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Let me say this. I've been close to this subject for 20 years.

305
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And I know that the Air Force was given this assignment, it's a very difficult assignment.

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And as I said earlier in the program, I think they have done a good job with a very difficult assignment within the restrictions which were placed on them.

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And these restrictions were placed from the very top.

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They cover not only the Air Force, but all the military.

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So they had to originate somewhere around or in the National Security Council.

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And if the National Security Council thinks that this should be done in a certain way, you may be sure that the president will cooperate fully with that conclusion.

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And I think that's what's happened. I don't think there's anything political about it.

312
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I don't think there is.

313
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I haven't suggested that there is.

314
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No, no, that's right.

315
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I haven't suggested that there is.

316
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That's right. And I agree with you.

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I think that that answers your question that he is simply regardless of who the president is, he is simply concurring in the policy which was set up and set up at a very high level.

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And I think that answers your question because I think that that really is is why it's done the way it's done.

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Yes, well, it does, Frank, but you did make one statement.

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I thought it was rather funny. You thought it would be impossible for three men to spend $10 million.

321
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Well, I don't think you looked over the poverty program.

322
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But I think that's quite a few millions spent.

323
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Of course, one of these guys was a sergeant. Would they let them spend that kind of money?

324
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I don't know.

325
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I don't think so.

326
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It's amazing to me how we have come really from intergalactic travel to the poverty program that we have.

327
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Oh, well, Alan, you know what? The year is far in the day, you know?

328
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Yes, and it's been quite a day.

329
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Thank you very much for calling.

330
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Alan, I travel faster than light, you know?

331
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Yes, and logic, perhaps.

332
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Talking tonight with Frank Edwards is an experience for me because Mr. Edwards, along with Earl Ness tonight,

333
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certainly articulates the situation beautifully and tells us the great many things that concern them

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and the great many things which remain unanswered.

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The fact that these answers seem, and these questions seem to want answers is something I don't think any of us can really ignore.

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Let me say that while I have never seen what could be described as an unidentified flying object,

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I also don't spend very much time looking for them.

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I have not put in the years of research and study and careful sifting of facts and of analysis that Frank has put in, that Earl Ness has put in.

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And therefore, my position is that I choose to sit and listen.

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I think it would be a mistake for any of us not to.

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But also, I also think that there is an odd kind of put down that we have had in programs in the past.

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And that doesn't happen tonight.

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It's a strange kind of a put down, Frank, on this kind of discussion from certain kinds of people.

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Do you run across this at all?

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Yes, yes.

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As I told that lady a while ago, this is a field where the only skeptics are the uninformed.

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And the more uninformed they are, the more skeptical they are.

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But after you have done any reasonable measure of research in this field,

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you become aware that there is a great deal more to it than you would think from reading the various official statements without dismissing these things as luminous flying ants and so forth.

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And after you have seen one yourself there, there is no question in your mind that you have seen something very unusual.

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You know, actually the swamp gas thing may have been a hope to people like yourself.

352
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Because I think it turned off a great many people in the swamp gas theory, Professor.

353
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Oh, sure, sure.

354
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That did more to discredit the Air Force as a source of information on this subject.

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And I had a feeling that perhaps they did it deliberately because I've had a feeling from statements that were made to me by some prominent people in the Air Force in recent years,

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that they would like to be rid of this thing, that they would like to get out from under this and turn it over to somebody else.

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It's not a military problem.

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There's no hostility from these things as Dr. Heineken, Dr. Carl Sagan and others said to the Congressional Investigations Committee earlier this year.

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This is a purely scientific problem and should be dealt with on that basis.

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And I think that the Air Force may have done a few things like the swamp gas story and some of the others to get itself out of the business,

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to get back into its own field of endeavor and turn this thing over to somebody else. Hello.

362
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,000
Yes, sir? Yes, sir.

363
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This is Roger Schrack in Mansfield, Ohio.

364
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Yes, sir.

365
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And I've been listening to your discussions and I thought maybe Mr. Edwards would want to comment on the author Raymond Bernard that built the Hollow Earth.

366
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Well, I'm not sure what he said, but perhaps these UFOs weren't necessarily in a planetary and I was wondering if maybe he had that in mind when he made that statement.

367
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Well, I'm going to hang on that question breathlessly because I'm dying to know what Frank Edward says too.

368
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Well, I didn't exactly have Mr. Bernard or the Hollow Earth book in mind when I made that statement. However, I'm glad you asked the question because in one of the earlier editions of his book Bernard started off by saying,

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my good friend Frank Edwards, I never saw or heard of the man until he wrote this book. The theory of the Hollow Earth is a very, very old one.

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In this country it got started with a man named John Sims who was a farmer in Ohio and he was a captain in the army during the War of 1812.

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And Captain Sims got hit over the head with a musket butt and he was never the same after that. He couldn't remember which way to lead his men toward the enemy and he sometimes led them in the wrong direction.

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And so they sent Captain Sims home and he sat on the courthouse lawn and whittled out hollow wooden balls which he told other spitting little fellows around there were models of the Hollow Earth.

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He also pestered members of Congress and scientists for years with letters urging them to finance an expedition to the North Pole, which he would lead, of course, Captain Sims.

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And he would lead it and to find the hole where people were going in and out of the Hollow Earth.

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The theory is old and I think that Sims' condition, due to that blow on the head, probably accounted for his enthusiasm for it.

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I have always felt that the theory of a Hollow Earth would only appeal to people with hollow heads.

377
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I think that was pretty clearly.

378
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Yeah, when you say that we're not expecting them to be able to come out with an Hollow Earth, there's no ideal word to it.

379
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It's all just fiction.

380
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Yes, that's right.

381
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Because I grant you that Hollow Earth, that's an Hollow Earth, did not fly into any Hollow Earth.

382
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I just, I'll recall it now.

383
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Thank you for calling.

384
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Okay.

385
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Thank you, sir.

386
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I'm glad the point came up because it's one of the things that bugs me.

387
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I read about this book in magazines advertised in a number of different publications.

388
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That's the output that sells that book.

389
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It has a mail drop up there in the hall of this building that they list as their headquarters.

390
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And they have a kid that goes around there a couple times a day and picks up the mail.

391
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And that's the publishing company.

392
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And they're selling the books.

393
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Oh, they sure are.

394
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Well, I put down the whole Hollow Earth thing.

395
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And apparently it's not just one book available.

396
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Oh, no.

397
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He's got a dozen books and all about that same caliber.

398
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,000
Yeah.

399
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There is just one little thing I would like to read.

400
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,000
Why have the authors permission to quote?

401
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,000
Well, please, Bill, you've got to quote from that great book, Flying The Sousers.

402
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,000
That's a great book.

403
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Oh, it's also a serious business.

404
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,000
Which, incidentally, doesn't need much help from me because it's number seven on the bestselling list.

405
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,000
Six now?

406
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,000
Six, yes.

407
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,000
It's coming up.

408
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,000
The bestsellers list of nonfiction.

409
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And that means it's doing pretty well.

410
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I think it's deservedly so, too, because it's written so well.

411
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But there's something here that really I think you ought to know about.

412
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It's one of the most significant parts of the book.

413
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It comes right up at the beginning, almost on page 18.

414
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And this is the story of a book called The Book of Desire, which is a chronicle of ancient India.

415
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A translation of which I understand, like, you were able to obtain through the revolution.

416
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Yes, this fellow was a doctor at the Georgetown College.

417
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Because I know for your mind.

418
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The book is a combination of legend and Frank Wright's passed down through the ages before men were able to write,

419
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and finally gathered in a manuscript formed by the ancient scholars who preserved them for us.

420
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They tell of a small group of beings who came to Earth many thousands of years ago in a metal craft,

421
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which first went around the Earth several times before landing.

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These beings, as the book lived to themselves, and were revered by the humans among whom they had settled.

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But each, eventually, differences arose among them, and they divided their numbers,

424
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,000
several of the men and women, and some children settling in another city,

425
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,000
where they were promptly installed as rulers by the Austric and Populus.

426
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:01,000
Separation did not bring peace to these people, and finally their anger reached a point where the ruler of the original city

427
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:08,000
took with him a small number of his warriors, and they rose into the air in a huge, shiny metal vessel.

428
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:16,000
While there were many leagues from the city of their enemies, they launched a great, shining lance that rode on a beam of light.

429
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:22,000
It burst apart in the city of their enemies with a great ball of flame that shot up to the heavens, almost to the stars.

430
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:29,000
All those in the city were horribly burned, and even those who were not in the city, but nearby, were burned also.

431
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,000
Those who looked upon the lance and the ball of fire were blinded forever afterward.

432
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,000
Those who entered the city on foot became ill and died.

433
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:42,000
Even the dust of the city was poisoned, as were the rivers that flowed through it.

434
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:47,000
Men dared not go near it, and it gradually crumbled into dust and was forgotten by men.

435
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:53,000
When the leaders saw what he had done to his own people, he retired to his palace and refused to see anyone.

436
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:58,000
There he gathered about him those of his warriors who were named, and their wives, and their children,

437
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:05,000
and they entered into their vessels and rose one by one into the sky and sailed away, nor did they return.

438
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:11,000
You think about that and read Frank's account as a peon afterward.

439
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:21,000
You see how close that comes to rocketry, to nuclear destruction, and this ages and ages ago in an ancient Indian culture.

440
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,000
It's estimated that that was about 6,000 years before Christ.

441
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,000
Frank Edwards, thank you very much for giving us something to think about tonight.

442
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,000
I would like to wish you the very best of luck with your book, Shaky and the Owl.

443
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,000
I'm really glad to see you.

444
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,000
Thank you, sir.

445
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,000
Now, I would just like to leave the audience with a thought, if I may.

446
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:48,000
I hope the horse can be forgiven in his tendency to fantasize, but I find this final observation in the book that we just made irresistible.

447
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:54,000
Wouldn't it be wild and exquisitely ironic if after all the sophistication of the 20th century,

448
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,000
after all the goddess' death theories and all the successful space shots,

449
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:04,000
after all the advanced research into LSD and all the hipping up of mankind on DNA and RNA,

450
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:09,000
it turned out that this planet really did host extraterrestrial visitors ages ago.

451
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:15,000
What if it turned out that through UFOs lies our contact with some valid or tangible kind of heaven,

452
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,000
a reachable before death kind of heaven?

453
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:27,000
What if it turned out that some of our most ancient teachings and tellings were simply forms of UFO reports told in the non-technological terms of another age?

454
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:36,000
Or go one step further, supposing the heaven that was told to people here on Earth by these allegedly extraterrestrial travelers

455
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:44,000
turned out to be not so good after all, and the heaven that we think of in our minds is really the heaven right here on Earth.

456
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,000
What strange and wonderful things we can encounter in the future and look forward to.